Incanto SUP021Y Black - Terminal Board

[syleecon]

Hi All!

As per information from the repair shop I've taken my machine in concern the repair of it can only be achieved via replacement of the terminal board. Unfortunately I have not found a proper priced unit anywhere. Does anyone have knowledge about a proper replacement parts website, in any language, any location, or can I somehow resolve the issue without actually replacing the complete board?

Any help is more than appreciated!

Thank you,

 

[hmilbradt]

Hi,

The replacement of the board should be carefully considered....
1. --- the voltage of the mains supply at home. In Germany only 230 VAC boards are used. Spare parts that can be used with other mains voltages are hard to find.
2. --- Why do you want to replace the whole board. If you have not encountered an unusual, severe problem a replacement of the faulty parts is possible and cheaper.
Saeco shops do not repair boards. They only replace whole boards. It is an official company policy.

regards
Harry

 

[syleecon]

Thanks hmilbradt. I appreciate your swift reply. I really had that thought myself but I did not dare to say this to the repair shop guy (ironic) but I think they are just lazy enough to figure out what is exactly wrong on the board. Its easier to replace a part that costs more than the machine itself, not to mention how ridiculous price they offered to us for buying the usable parts of the machine... As a matter my parents - as they used the machine for a long time before it went wrong - just described the symptoms to me as follows:

- On/Off works
- LEDs work work on the machine properly
- Any portion is chosen, the machine starts grinding, or at least gives the sound of the engine winding up, and trying to grind coffee.
- This is where it stops, as coffe is not made afterwards, and even the grinding stops.

We decided to take it to the repair shop, where we were told after a couple of days that the control panel (terminal board?) does not work properly.

Is there any way I can troublshoot what is exactly wrong with the machine not engaging them again?

Thanks again

 

[hmilbradt]

Hi,

In the incanto SUP 021Y a "steel" grinder is installed. The grinder pushes the coffee into a small doser. When this compartment is filled a microswitch is activated and a solonoid opens the compartment door that allows the coffee to be dropped into the brew unit, the grinder is switched off and the brewing cycle starts. The program timeout is about 20 sec for the microswich to be activated or you will not obtain a cup of coffee.
So, I would suggest as a first step to clean and adjust the grinder. Use a vacuum cleaner to remove the gounded coffee in the tube between grinder and doser.
This PDF-file will help you ...
Justierung Mahlwerk Saeco Incanto SUP 021Y
---- Autor: datschi2008
This problem ist often encountered, when somebody accidentally tried to bath the coffee beans.
In the tube between grinder and doser normally is gounded coffee for 3 to 4 cups.

In order to differentiate between board und grinder -- measure the supply voltage of the grinder --- in Germany the grinder uses a 230 VDC-motor and the board feeds it with 190 to 200 VDC.

regards
Harry

 

[syleecon]

Thanks Harry. I will try the attached one first. As I live in Hungary, I suspect supply voltage of the grinder and the board feed is going to be the same as in Germany. I'll keep you posted whether the first step was successful, but first thing is to get a bit of sleep

Until then, thanks again!

 

[syleecon]

Hi again,

I gave it a go as described in the manual you have sent, and managed to completely clear the grinder. I have created some proof attached in a zipped file that contains 3 pictures made on the progress. You can see the 'undressed' grinder, and some others made during the progress, evertyhing of course being built backwards according to the instructions. I have uploaded the pictures to MegaUpload under the following link: SUP021Y_issue. It also contains a video of what sound the coffee machine gives after reassembly (did it yesterday too when I took it back from the service). I filled the water tank, and the coffee container, as well. Cleared the brewgroup, and all other plastic parts just to try to give a nice look.

Would you mind having a look at the video, and especially the crazy sound the machine gives, and suggest if I can do anything more?

Thank you in advance,

 

[hmilbradt]

Hi,

I listened to the sound of your grinder and could not recognize a fault. But I missed the noise of the doser. Remember you need about 2 to 3 trials to fill the doser compartment. Did the grinder actually work ? was the doser filled with coffee ? Did you measure the voltage supplied by the board ?
The pictures are o.k.

Compare the sound of your grinder with these movies on "YouTube" .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqTgpRtSIFU&feature=related ..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyGec50xNwA&feature=related

regards
Harry

 

[syleecon]

As I remember the machine at my parents, when it used to work, worked exactly like this (well soundwise ). YouTube - ‪Saeco incanto knarzt‬‏

The problem on my video though is that the intial heating / powerup cycle seems to have issues. The sound is actually not the sound of the grinder, but it is the sound straight after I hit the power button. If I recall correctly the machine used to switch on silently. It does not get to the state so that the two LED-s don't flash on the front, but steadily glow. I don't think it used to switch on with this sound, further to that the excalamation mark led blinks :S, maybe this might be extra information.

I'll get a multi meter today and measure the voltage supplied to the board, hopefully can get back to you soon.

Thank you again.

 

[syleecon]

So finally got my multimeter, but I am bit clueless where to start measurement of the board feed to the grinder. Is there any drawing whatsoever available where I should measure this? Sorry but I am an electronics 'virgin', apart from what I have studied in school (long time ago... )
The sockets provide ~230 V (varies in 229-234 V range)

Thanks again,

 

[W1cht3lm@nn]

On the video in the "Issue_SUP21.zip" file exists no grinder sound, its rather the pump thats active all the time.

I assume that water/steam leaked inside the machine and produced a short-circuit on the circuit board.

To solve that the board has to be removed and diagnosed, i.e. controlled for burnt parts as the first step. In most cases the places where the power-consumers have to be switched are burnt (where the distance between contacts is the smallest). A thorough cleaning and new isolation with special isolating laquer is often enough to fix such defects.

The leak itself, if one exists, has to be searched separately. Often it becomes obvious as visible calc. Generally its the right thing on a fully-automatic of that age to replace all sealings.

But first you should open the machine and take some more photos to see which parts need cure.

Here is a guide to open the machine:
http://www.saeco-support-forum.de/faq/Christian_Schneider/Incanto SUP 021Y Demontage.pdf
You dont need the last 3 photos in there at the moment as they show how to remove the steam valve, thats not necessarily defect at your machine.
But take a photo of that part from your machine, if its the plastic variant then it has to be replaced for a metal one as the plastic things all went leaking.

 

[syleecon]

Will do, and come back to you soon (hopefully)

 

[syleecon]

I can confirm 2 things now. I managed to test the machine with a new control panel but as the symptoms were exactly the same after the coffee machine was switched on, so my guess is that it works. I did closely check after switch on, if the board got wet, but nothing. Pump(?) gave the same sound, but I could not really isolate the source.

Then I disassembled the machine as per instruction from you (attached in your previous post) and found it that there indeed might have been leakages as there was calc. all over the place (attached pics). The steam valve water regulator part seems to be a plastic one.

I could consider replacing it, I will go and search the parts, will also order a set of sealings. I will also clean the front valves, they seem to be calced too...

Would you recommend anything else to be checked in the meantime? Thanks so far again

 

[W1cht3lm@nn]

Yes, the steam valve leaked a lot. That might be the main failure.

You could test to open the steam valve when the machine is switched on to see if the pump manages to get water through the system. But stop at the right time do not let it leak again so much.

Please make at least one more picture of the back of the inners to let us see which type of heater is mounted. There are 2 variants, 1 goes leaking, the other one goes stuck... (not kidding ;/ ).

The noisy pump is the round, red, vertical mounted thing in rubber mountings in the left side, viewed from the back.

 

[syleecon]

Took photos of the units in concern. Does that reveal any extra information? To me it does not - I hope it does to you though.

To test the steam valve, would the machine not have to be powercycled up without flashing leds?
Water seemed to have been reaching the top part of the valve, but from there - nothing. I did take it apart though and could not fully test. If that would be required, let me know and I will give a try somehow.

I guess so far the recommendation would be:
- Swap to metal valve
- Replace sealing set (which one is the right set for me?)
- etc...?

Thanks again and again for your help.

 

[W1cht3lm@nn]

Took photos of the units in concern. Does that reveal any extra information? To me it does not - I hope it does to you though.

To test the steam valve, would the machine not have to be powercycled up without flashing leds?

The photo shows that your machine has the older type of flow heater which has sealings in it rather than a continous pipe. This sealings are a common failure as theyre stressed by the heat.

As your machine pumps all the time, water should come out of the steam pipe if the valve is opened (counter-clockwise). But thats not an important matter, if you replace the steam valve and the sealings in the heater you should find the blockages if there are any.

recommended spare parts:
Brew group:
Brhgruppen Dichtungen der Saeco Gerte - Dicofema
Flow heater:
Reparaturkit Saeco Durchlauferhitzer - Dicofema
Support valve and teflon pipes:
Komplettdichtungen einer Saeco Maschine - Dicofema
Support valve opener:
Gleitstck im Auslaufstutzen - Dicofema
Water reservoir connector:
Lippendichtung Wassertank gaco - Dicofema
Grease, if you dont have some from the machines accessories:
Silikonfett 6 g Tube - Dicofema

Edit: Forgot to put the Steam valve on the list:
http://www.dicofema.de/shop/saeco/incanto/saeco-incanto-ventilkoerper-komplett.htm

It also would make sense at this time to mark all connectors and cables (or take many and good photos of them) and remove the main circuit board from the machine to find out if it is repairable with not too much effort or not.
If you removed it please take good photos of it, especially from the back side too.

 

[syleecon]

Took some photos, there seems no issue on the board, and I suspect - as the other board worked the same way with the noise - that it works as it should.... In case I loose some information like what cable should go where, is there any cable schematic available somewhere, for later use? (I have the board connectors named per JP# on the board, so those locations I will find, and hvae photos of it too..)
The other parts I will order, I just need to figure out if they delivery to my location..

 

[W1cht3lm@nn]

I managed to test the machine with a new control panel but as the symptoms were exactly the same after the coffee machine was switched on

there seems no issue on the board, and I suspect - as the other board worked the same way with the noise - that it works as it should....

OK, I thought you changed the other board (keyboard) rather than that mainboard.

I will look for a connection diagram, it seems likely that the mainboard is connected in a wrong way.

 

[W1cht3lm@nn]

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