Primea Ring begehrt wasser (und is noch 1/3 voll

[mitim]

Hallo alle,
Auf Deutch, so gut als ich mochte: (bin sehr krumm dabei )

Der wasser beholter ist jetz nache bei 1/3 (oder mehr), voll doch begehrt die machine wasser. Ich habe es im diagnosemodus besucht zu beandern, doch sieht mann nur "700" mit wasser angefullt, "0" wenn wasser fehlt. Wo ich siehe nirgend wo ein sensor oder schwimm magnet im beholter. wie kann er's errahten so es am wasser fehlt? Ich habe im forum herum gesucht aber finde nichs das dieses probleme addresseirt. Die maschine ist neu, hat nur 2 tasse gemacht.
Bin dankbar fur eure hilfe.

English:

The machine will ask for the water tank to be filled even though it's still more than 1/3rd full. Where is the sensor that indicates when tank is empty? There is no float in the tank, but it will always trigger this alarm at the same place. How does the sensor work? My thinking is there must either be a sensitive pressure sensor or an ultrasound detector. Am I correct? Is this adjustable? If it is not adjustable, then what is the purpose of having such a large tank if only 2/3rds of the water can be used?

I purchased the machine new "as is, no warranty" for a good price, so I cannot take it in for warranty work. It had 2 cups on the counter.
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[ksb]

Hi mitim,

i think that the amount of water left is needed to assure that an optional water filter is always covered with water.

The sensor working principle is measuring the capacitance of the water.

Please wait for Harrys declaration and maybe advice - he is perfect in english and knows more about this topic.

recards ksb

 

[hmilbradt]

Hi mitim,

The water level sensor and the flowmeter in the Primea Ring are connected to JP8.
Water level sensor ....
1. --- GND
2. --- 5 VDC
3. --- level signal ... a 3,3 VDC is supposed to signal "tank is full" This value is based on notes I read about the Primea Touch.
Flowmeter .....
4. --- 5 VDC
5. --- GND
6. --- signal line of the flowmeter pulses

Item 1:
The power connections of the sensor/flowmeter should be crosschecked. Then experiment with an external stabilized 5 VDC power supply and a 4K7 Ohm pullup resistor. The sensor seems to have an open collector NPN-output transistor. See attached diagram. The parallel capacitors C30 and C40 buffer the 5 VDC supply voltage of the sensor. ..... Draw a curve tank level vs. returned signal voltage in order to determine ..... malfunctioning sensor or is an improvement possible influencing the signal voltage. Upload this curve.

Item 2:
Read the diagrams of your machine .... explosions

on Page 4: The water tank sensor #19 it is hidden behind the support #10 und uses a combined cable with the flowmeter. A capacitive measuring system is actually the wrong design choice for a removable tank, because the required strict parameters can not be reached on the production line.
Lets go to the Odea: the machine used the same system for the water level of the drip tray. Many customers complained about early warnings.
One forum member used this workaround --->>> Saeco Support Forum
The german description is in this thread --->>> http://www.saeco-support-forum.de/odea-serie/5941-spuelwassertasse-sensor-austricksen.html
... A design change of the drip tray by Saeco followed ---> Saeco Support Forum
The change incorporated an overflow bay in order to prevent early warnings.. Later Saeco removed this system completely.
Totay the software counts the number of cups brewed.
My proposal is: Since an accurate adjustment of the water tank sensor is almost impossible, experiment with adhesive carpet-tape as the forum member "mozart" did.

regards
Harry

 

[mitim]

Thank you Harry for the explanation of this sensor system. The sensor works flawlessly. Its only the triggering level that needs to be lowered so I can use the bottom 1/3rd of the water. Could the pickup sensor be repositioned lower or is it attached to some other part that is not moveable?
Typing this on my BB

 

[mitim]

Addenum to above reply

Harry, the sensor works perfect in that it will go from "full" to "empty" in about 15mm height difference. I want to lower the sensor so it will shut off at a lower level. I do not want to take the machine apart if it cannot be moved. From my experience with the level and my understanding of the diagram, the little circuit board with the sensor is mounted just above the water inlet into the machine.
I think that part of the problem with the ODEA sensor is that the pickup circuit was extremely sensitive and was being triggered "full" by coffee dreg residues and humidity in the air. We used to have the same type capacitive sensors in a feed mill I worked in, and we were plagued with either false empty or non-detected overfills (never when watched), depending on the sensitivty of the circuit, amount of dust on the sensor head, and the humidity in the air at a given time. We ended replacing all of them with old-fashioned paddle microswitches. They work.

 

[hmilbradt]

Hi mitim,

Nobody in the forum reported repositioning the sensor to adjust the trigger level and I did not try it myself. The sensor is behind the cover. Fact is you have to open the machine and learn by trial and error.

Sorry
regards
Harry

 

[mitim]

Cover removal for sensor repositioning.

Thank you for the reply, Harry.
I'm willing to dive in. Is it possible to remove only the half on the water tank side, or must everything be stripped down from the top? Has anyone documented how to take apart the Primea Ring? Let me know if there are instructions anywhere, please.
On another note, am I the only one bothered by being able to use only 2/3rd of the containers' capacity? or is it only effecting my machine? If so, is it possible the sensor shifted? I will let you know what I find.
Thanks Again

 

[mitim]

Problem fixed.

Hello all,
I took off the water tank side cover by 1st removing the bean hopper, then removing the top screws, and also the all the screws in the water tank cavity. The side is removed by lifting it out of the tabs in rear, and pushing it down in front. You have to go slowly so as not to break any of the lock tabs.
THe sensor board was mounted in an indent of the column 10 (expl. diag) on the rear wall. I gently pried it loose, and lowered it to the lowest flat position on the same wall, and it now work like I want it to. I have included a picture of the sensor board where it's currently mounted.

Thank you, Harry, for the suggestions.