Royal Professional, runs one direction only

[mitim]

Hallo
Bin etwas erkundigt in deutch, doch viel besser english. Sonsten, meine begehre:

I have a Royal professional redesigned, almost new,(11 tasse) purchased as defect with BG blocked. I removed the BG, took off the cover, and checked all wiring. Everything is ok and connected correctly. But machine does not home, and will not turn the brew group drive in dir "2" using the testmodus. When I'm in test mode, the top row "2" is on and will not turn off. This is the case with the plugin from swithes (JP1) unplugged or attached. Pressing Hot water will cause the motor to run, but no changes are registered in the top row. Pressing bypass dose will cause "2" on bottom row to light, but will not turn on drive. I checked voltages on that plugin, red will change from 0 to 4.97 to 0 to 2.237 then again 0. Brown wire does the same cycle. I switched in a controller from a working unit and machine then functions correctly. I fear a new CPU board is required. Are they repairable? Is there a way to test further?
Thank you in advance.

 

[ksb]

Check the resistance at the 4-pole motor-connector (yellow-yellow-red-blue) between "yellow-yellow" - target value is 130 Ohms - if not, check the thermo-fuses in the yellow wires of the cup-heater.

Check the resistance between "red-blue" at the same connector.

Measure the voltage at both of the limit-switches of the brewing unit.

I switched in a controller from a working unit and machine then functions correctly.

Did you replace only the controller (ic) or the board ?

regards KSB

 

[mitim]

check the resistance at the 4-pole motor-connector between "yellow-yellow" - target value is 130 Ohms - if not, check the thermo-fuses in the yellow wires of the cup-heater

regards KSB

Thank you for the quick reply. Is this neccessary, knowing it will work if I switch the CPU card only?

 

[ksb]

it is only to be sure, that the resistance is the right way.

Measure the voltage at both of the limit-switches of the brewing unit in unswitched state (open)

 

[mitim]

Check the resistance at the 4-pole motor-connector (yellow-yellow-red-blue) between "yellow-yellow" - target value is 130 Ohms - if not, check the thermo-fuses in the yellow wires of the cup-heater.

Check the resistance between "red-blue" at the same connector.

Measure the voltage at both of the limit-switches of the brewing unit.



Did you replace only the controller (ic) or the board ?

regards KSB

I switched the board ; CPU is a SMT processor

 

[mitim]

it is only to be sure, that the resistance is the right way.

Measure the voltage at both of the limit-switches of the brewing unit in unswitched state (open)

I checked the voltage on the limit switches using the black wire of JP4 as a reference.

When Red = 4.97 then Brown = 2.947
When Red = 2.226 then Brown= 4.97
When Red = 0 then Brown = 0

Resistance is definately different -
Yellow3 to Yellow4 = 53.6
Yellow4 to Blue = .53.6
Yellow4 to Red = 72.6
Yellow3 to Blue = .1
Yellow3 to Red = 19.1

So you think something could be wrong w/thermofuses on cupwarmer? I will check and let you know.
Thank you

 

[mitim]

I checked the voltage on the limit switches using the black wire of JP4 as a reference.

When Red = 4.97 then Brown = 2.947
When Red = 2.226 then Brown= 4.97
When Red = 0 then Brown = 0

Resistance is definately different -
Yellow3 to Yellow4 = 53.6
Yellow4 to Blue = .53.6
Yellow4 to Red = 72.6
Yellow3 to Blue = .1
Yellow3 to Red = 19.1

So you think something could be wrong w/thermofuses on cupwarmer? I will check and let you know.
Thank you

Re-checked the ohms - 53.7 - Could the reason for not having 130 ohm readig be that this is a 120 volt machine?

Voltages - using black wire as reference microswitch open = 4.97v closed 0.00v for both circuits.
Thank you

 

[hmilbradt]

Re-checked the ohms - 53.7 - Could the reason for not having 130 ohm reading be that this is a 120 volt machine?

Hi mitim,

Your assumption of having bought a 110 V-machine could be correct. The cup heater element is supposed to produce 437 Watts when it is switched into the dedicated 'cup heater' mode.
Are you sure the yellow wires are connected with the cup heater element ? Check the resistance again, this time directly at the heater connectors.
Also check the resistance of the heater elements at the main heat exchanger. Post these values in the forum and the name of your power board. The name is etched into the copper layer on the backside of the board ........ M6AV10 is for instance a 230 V power board.

Do you have an electric house wiring of 120 Volts in your country ??

regards
Harry

 

[mitim]

Hi mitim,

Your assumption of having bought a 110 V-machine could be correct. The cup heater element is supposed to produce 437 Watts when it is switched into the dedicated 'cup heater' mode.
Are you sure the yellow wires are connected with the cup heater element ? Check the resistance again, this time directly at the heater connectors.
Also check the resistance of the heater elements at the main heat exchanger. Post these values in the forum and the name of your power board. The name is etched into the copper layer on the backside of the board ........ M6AV10 is for instance a 230 V power board.

Do you have an electric house wiring of 120 Volts in your country ??

regards
Harry

Thank you for the input, Harry.
I live in USA, and it's a bigger problem finding 230v plugins than 120v. The yellow wires are connected to the cup heater (437watts), and have 53.7 r. I will take the control out again and also get the readings and numbers you asked for. It will be later, as I'm tied up for part of the day.
Thanks again

 

[hmilbradt]

Hi mitim,

Take all the time you need. Since we are moderating a German forum, all the electronic problems, we tackle, and all values published depend on a 230 Volts-house-wiring.
In addition to the board's name I would like to suggest to download high-resolution photos (front and back) of your control board --- we are running into a new territory.

regards
Harry

 

[mitim]

Hi mitim,

Take all the time you need. Since we are moderating a German forum, all the electronic problems, we tackle, and all values published depend on a 230 Volts-house-wiring.
In addition to the board's name I would like to suggest to download high-resolution photos (front and back) of your control board --- we are running into a new territory.

regards
Harry

Here is a photo of the CPU card - Please note the red tracing lines indicating on which pin of CPU the problem input is connected. I will add more photos later - kinda tied up w/nieces' wedding, reg work, etc..

 

[mitim]

The jpg is not very clear. I will upload another

 

[hmilbradt]

Hi mitim,

I would appreciate a larger and clearer photo, because it's a very new Saeco board, which I have never seen in a Royal Professional. It seems to use a switching power supply to create the 5 VDC on the power board. The 5 VDC are led to the CPU board and stepped down to 3,3 Volts. This technique is used on the boards of the newer Saeco brands ---- Primea, Talea and Odea ---- , which use display-ICs that need 3,3 VDC. Sorry, I can not ascertain which IC depends on 3,3 VDC on your board.

regards
Harry

 

[mitim]

Hi mitim,

I would appreciate a larger and clearer photo, because it's a very new Saeco board, which I have never seen in a Royal Professional. It seems to use a switching power supply to create the 5 VDC on the power board. The 5 VDC are led to the CPU board and stepped down to 3,3 Volts. This technique is used on the boards of the newer Saeco brands ---- Primea, Talea and Odea ---- , which use display-ICs that need 3,3 VDC. Sorry, I can not ascertain which IC depends on 3,3 VDC on your board.

regards
Harry

Thank you Harry,
I tried 3-4 times, but the larger jpg seem to be rejected at the last moment. (5,832kb) I tried uploading a *.zip pic, but same thing, after progress bar reaches the end and a 2 minute wait, mewwage that file transfer has failed. Have you any other suggestions?
I think the i/o ports are 5v on this board, as I could detect that voltage on several pins.
mitim

 

[hmilbradt]

Hi mitim,

Maybe this new version of the forum software limits a single upload to 2 MB as the old version did. I'll will talk with our administrator this evening and try to convince him that we urgently need a limitless FTP-upload area to exchange large pictures. I'll keep you informed.

regards
Harry

 

[mitim]

Hi mitim,

Maybe this new version of the forum software limits a single upload to 2 MB as the old version did. I'll will talk with our administrator this evening and try to convince him that we urgently need a limitless FTP-upload area to exchange large pictures. I'll keep you informed.

regards
Harry

That could be, though the message box says jpg, zip, and some other files size limits are 8mb. Is there another way to transfer the pictures? Would email work?

 

[hmilbradt]

Hi miti,

There ist a new function in this version. It permits an upload up to 10 MB filesize
Please use this link ---> http://www.saeco-support-forum.de/album.php?do=addalbum
By the way the 2 MB upload limit is an error. It will be raised to 8 MB by our administrator in the near future.

regards
Harry

 

[mitim]

Hi miti,

There ist a new function in this version. It permits an upload up to 10 MB filesize
Please use this link ---> http://www.saeco-support-forum.de/album.php?do=addalbum
By the way the 2 MB upload limit is an error. It will be raised to 8 MB by our administrator in the near future.

regards
Harry

Hi
Please see photos in my albums.

 

[hmilbradt]

Hi,

I looked at your photos carefully. Your board uses a NEC microprocessor µPD78F0078. The wires on JP1 go to the (gear) microswitches. Both black wires supply GND potential. The parts marked by a red dot form the attached diagram. Pin 29 of the µP is an ADC-pin. The µP converts the voltage buffered by the capacitor to a digital value.
The buffered voltage is dependent on the voltage deviders, whose change is determined by the microswitches. The most critical part in this circuit is the small capacitor. Its failure moves the voltage ranges that are laid down in the program.
I could not read the values of the resistors in your picture, so I took them from the CPU-board RRDCPUV02.
Confirm that your SMD resistors a marked 152, 222 and 272.

regards
Harry

 

[mitim]

Hi,

I looked at your photos carefully. Your board uses a NEC microprocessor µPD78F0078. The wires on JP1 go to the (gear) microswitches. Both black wires supply GND potential. The parts marked by a red dot form the attached diagram. Pin 29 of the µP is an ADC-pin. The µP converts the voltage buffered by the capacitor to a digital value.
The buffered voltage is dependent on the voltage deviders, whose change is determined by the microswitches. The most critical part in this circuit is the small capacitor. Its failure moves the voltage ranges that are laid down in the program.
I could not read the values of the resistors in your picture, so I took them from the CPU-board RRDCPUV02.
Confirm that your SMD resistors a marked 152, 222 and 272.

regards
Harry

Thank you very much for your time and effort you are applying to this.
The resistors are as follows in the same arrangement:

R16 = 272 R28 = 222

R11 = 152 Capacator

Here is a voltage reading from black wire :

SW state
Red |Brown |CPU Pin 29 |Red wire |Brown wire
0 | 0 |4.97 | 4.97 |4.97
1 | 0 |2.022 | 0 |2.022
0 | 1 | 2.774 | 2.774 |0

(Almost) looks like the circuit is working. I do not know what voltage readings should be. Maybe you know if they're correct.
Thanks again
mitim